TheDuke!!! said:I recall us doing a lot of pitching to the outside as well. His concussion against Oregon State(?) had nothing to do with play calling. It was due to Best fearlessly trying to pull off an insanely dangerous leaping touchdown.calumnus said:TheDuke!!! said:That's amazing! But he never put together a season like Arrington's. Best was hurt quite a bit.ducktilldeath said:Best is the conference's all time YPC leader. A college conference.TheDuke!!! said:
I stand by my Igber ranking. This ranking is about college, not the NFL. And Igber was an amazing college player. He achieved those extra yards in Tom Holmoe's offense. Best had the benefit of being in an offense that made sense.
But heck, I also love Jahvid Best.
However, neither Best nor Marshawn nor Igber hold a candle to Arrington's contribution in 2004.
Arrington also had to compete with touches with Marshawn and a killer passing game. That makes what he accomplished all the more amazing.
If instead of running him into the pile on first down we had pitched the ball to Best outside, he would have broken all the records and won the Heisman. And stayed healthy. What we did was like using a Ferrari in a demolition derby.
The last thing I want to do is to make this sound like I am anti-Best. The dude was nothing short of amazing and I am grateful for the time we had with him. But he doesn't hold a candle to Arrington or Marshawn. He is certainly in the conversation, however, with Forsett, Igber, Vereen, Echimandu, etc. for the #3 spot. I think you could make a case for any of them (including Best) to land at number three.
It is really hard to counter you without sound like I am down on Best - which I am not.calumnus said:TheDuke!!! said:I recall us doing a lot of pitching to the outside as well. His concussion against Oregon State(?) had nothing to do with play calling. It was due to Best fearlessly trying to pull off an insanely dangerous leaping touchdown.calumnus said:TheDuke!!! said:That's amazing! But he never put together a season like Arrington's. Best was hurt quite a bit.ducktilldeath said:Best is the conference's all time YPC leader. A college conference.TheDuke!!! said:
I stand by my Igber ranking. This ranking is about college, not the NFL. And Igber was an amazing college player. He achieved those extra yards in Tom Holmoe's offense. Best had the benefit of being in an offense that made sense.
But heck, I also love Jahvid Best.
However, neither Best nor Marshawn nor Igber hold a candle to Arrington's contribution in 2004.
Arrington also had to compete with touches with Marshawn and a killer passing game. That makes what he accomplished all the more amazing.
If instead of running him into the pile on first down we had pitched the ball to Best outside, he would have broken all the records and won the Heisman. And stayed healthy. What we did was like using a Ferrari in a demolition derby.
The last thing I want to do is to make this sound like I am anti-Best. The dude was nothing short of amazing and I am grateful for the time we had with him. But he doesn't hold a candle to Arrington or Marshawn. He is certainly in the conversation, however, with Forsett, Igber, Vereen, Echimandu, etc. for the #3 spot. I think you could make a case for any of them (including Best) to land at number three.
You recall us pitching the ball to Best outside because the few times we did it was memorable: nearly every time we did it went for a long TD.
Arrington and Lynch were FAR better suited to the tough interior running Tedford/Cortez favored. Tedford generally used Best in a similar way, but look at the way Pete Carrol used Reggie Bush: it got him a Heisman. Best was better than Bush. Really a shame.
This not a list of my favorites. If it was, DeSean and Rodgers wouldn't be anywhere near it.Big C said:
Appreciate your posts, The Duke!!!!! and especially for engendering conversation about actual football in May.
That said...
- Arrington as our best running back is a meme (and yes, I can count to 2,000).
- Igber over Best? Igber over Ott-even-before-his-3rd-season?
- Geoff MacArthur (RIP) is also a meme, especially with KA21 and DeSean in the conversation.
As another poster put it, these are just some of your personal favorites from when you were in your glory years, or something. Or maybe you're like the advice columnist Dear Abby, whose advice lately is so bad, she must've gone off the deep end... oh, wait, she's doing that on purpose to get some responses (clever!).
TheDuke!!! said:This not a list of my favorites. If it was, DeSean and Rodgers wouldn't be anywhere near it.Big C said:
Appreciate your posts, The Duke!!!!! and especially for engendering conversation about actual football in May.
That said...
- Arrington as our best running back is a meme (and yes, I can count to 2,000).
- Igber over Best? Igber over Ott-even-before-his-3rd-season?
- Geoff MacArthur (RIP) is also a meme, especially with KA21 and DeSean in the conversation.
As another poster put it, these are just some of your personal favorites from when you were in your glory years, or something. Or maybe you're like the advice columnist Dear Abby, whose advice lately is so bad, she must've gone off the deep end... oh, wait, she's doing that on purpose to get some responses (clever!).
Geoff Macarthur was injured for much of his time at Cal. But he still had more yards than either DeSean or Keenan. He also had more YPC than either of them. He had more TDs than Keenan, and just two fewer than DeSean.
I love Ott. So much so that if he is ever part of a positive turn in our program like Igber was, he will definitely be in the conversation for the third spot. Until then, I am sticking with Igber at number three.
That being said, Igber and Ott are a good comparison -- as with the exception of one year for each of them, their times at Cal were characterized by absolutely terrible offensive schemes.
Not sure what you mean by meme. But you seem to be judging on NFL talent. I don't care about that. Cal doesn't play in that league. I like college football because that is where Cal plays.
Hmmm. But that seems like the only thing they have in common. Arrington was in a competent and productive offensive scheme his entire career at Cal.Big C said:
Igber might be a better comparison with Arrington: great senior seasons!
TheDuke!!! said:Hmmm. But that seems like the only thing they have in common. Arrington was in a competent and productive offensive scheme his entire career at Cal.Big C said:
Igber might be a better comparison with Arrington: great senior seasons!
That can't be said of Igber or Ott.
I think I already did that by ranking head coaches, OCs, DCs, and STCs.Big C said:TheDuke!!! said:Hmmm. But that seems like the only thing they have in common. Arrington was in a competent and productive offensive scheme his entire career at Cal.Big C said:
Igber might be a better comparison with Arrington: great senior seasons!
That can't be said of Igber or Ott.
I see the possibility of a new thread for you to start: Ranking Cal Systems (Top 3, last 25 years)
TheDuke!!! said:I think I already did that by ranking head coaches, OCs, DCs, and STCs.Big C said:TheDuke!!! said:Hmmm. But that seems like the only thing they have in common. Arrington was in a competent and productive offensive scheme his entire career at Cal.Big C said:
Igber might be a better comparison with Arrington: great senior seasons!
That can't be said of Igber or Ott.
I see the possibility of a new thread for you to start: Ranking Cal Systems (Top 3, last 25 years)
To save you a bit of time clicking back to the first page of this thread, None of Holmoe's OCs, nor Musgrave nor Bloesch made the list.
TheDuke!!! said:I think I already did that by ranking head coaches, OCs, DCs, and STCs.Big C said:TheDuke!!! said:Hmmm. But that seems like the only thing they have in common. Arrington was in a competent and productive offensive scheme his entire career at Cal.Big C said:
Igber might be a better comparison with Arrington: great senior seasons!
That can't be said of Igber or Ott.
I see the possibility of a new thread for you to start: Ranking Cal Systems (Top 3, last 25 years)
To save you a bit of time clicking back to the first page of this thread, None of Holmoe's OCs, nor Musgrave nor Bloesch made the list.
For two reasons:calumnus said:TheDuke!!! said:I think I already did that by ranking head coaches, OCs, DCs, and STCs.Big C said:TheDuke!!! said:Hmmm. But that seems like the only thing they have in common. Arrington was in a competent and productive offensive scheme his entire career at Cal.Big C said:
Igber might be a better comparison with Arrington: great senior seasons!
That can't be said of Igber or Ott.
I see the possibility of a new thread for you to start: Ranking Cal Systems (Top 3, last 25 years)
To save you a bit of time clicking back to the first page of this thread, None of Holmoe's OCs, nor Musgrave nor Bloesch made the list.
Why not just say "None of Holmoe's or Wilcox's OCs made the list" unless for some reason you will need to explain Baldwin did.
why are you writing RIP? He was posting on facebook a couple hours ago...Big C said:
Appreciate your posts, The Duke!!!!! and especially for engendering conversation about actual football in May.
That said...
- Arrington as our best running back is a meme (and yes, I can count to 2,000).
- Igber over Best? Igber over Ott-even-before-his-3rd-season?
- Geoff MacArthur (RIP) is also a meme, especially with KA21 and DeSean in the conversation.
As another poster put it, these are just some of your personal favorites from when you were in your glory years, or something. Or maybe you're like the advice columnist Dear Abby, whose advice lately is so bad, she must've gone off the deep end... oh, wait, she's doing that on purpose to get some responses (clever!).
flounder said:why are you writing RIP? He was posting on facebook a couple hours ago...Big C said:
Appreciate your posts, The Duke!!!!! and especially for engendering conversation about actual football in May.
That said...
- Arrington as our best running back is a meme (and yes, I can count to 2,000).
- Igber over Best? Igber over Ott-even-before-his-3rd-season?
- Geoff MacArthur (RIP) is also a meme, especially with KA21 and DeSean in the conversation.
As another poster put it, these are just some of your personal favorites from when you were in your glory years, or something. Or maybe you're like the advice columnist Dear Abby, whose advice lately is so bad, she must've gone off the deep end... oh, wait, she's doing that on purpose to get some responses (clever!).
TheDuke!!! said:
MacArthur is still very much alive. Fighting cancer IIRC.
In addition to being alive, he is also still the all-time leader in receiving yards in Cal Football history.
He also has more YPC than either Keenan or Desean -- and by a pretty decent margin.
He also still has more TDs than Keenan and just two fewer than Desean.
Man, I loved Douglas.ducky23 said:
What about dameane Douglas? He had to play for a crappy offense as well (just like Igber). He had vedder throwing to him for gods sakes. And his career numbers are pretty damn good. I don't understand how Igber is top 3 over best cause Igber played in a bad offense but Douglas somehow doesn't get the same benefit of the doubt?