Ranking Offensive Skilled Position Players (Top-3, last 25 Years)

TheDuke!!!

8:10p, 4/13/24

If you haven't checked out the "ranking everyone" thread, please do. The rules and reasoning behind these lists are explained here.

In the last one, I did senior leadership (HCs, coordinators, chancellors, ADs). In this one, let's focus on offensive skilled guys. Next I will do OL, then move to the front 7 of defense.

These rankings are just about what they have done for Cal, and also a bit about how they have given back or stayed connected to the university since leaving. It has nothing to do with NFL exploits.

Quarterbacks

1. Rodgers - we had more confidence with him behind the helm than anyone else.
2. Goff - put up big numbers, but never gave us a really good season. He also had a way of making huge mistakes at critical moments (getting beat at times by scrubs like Modster). The only reason I bring this negative stuff up is to explain why he isn't number 1.
3. Boller - I considered Garbers -- and to a lesser extent Riley, Longshore and Webb. But Boller twice willed us to victory against USC with terrible OCs - something none of the other QBs except Garbers ever did once with pretty darn good OCs. On the downside, he had a bad big game record (25%).

Running Backs

1. Arrington
2. Lynch
3. Igber (this category was really hard, as we had so many great RBs the last 25 years.) Apologies to Best, Echimandu, Forsett, Vereen, and Ott

Wide Receivers

1. Geoff Macarthur
2. Keenan Allen
3. Desean (I was really tempted to leave him off this list based on all of his boneheaded on and off the field mistakes. A case could be made for Hanson or Lawler)

Tight Ends

1. Cross
2. Stevens
3. Swaboda (sorry to Rodgers and Morrah)

Fullbacks

1. Manderino
2. Ta'ufo'ou
3. Storer
(NB: this category was really hard. We all remember Gould for his RB tree. But he also produced a ton of great FBs. Apologies to Kapp and others left off)

flounder

11:09p, 4/13/24

Igber over Best is laughable.

TheDuke!!!

12:58a, 4/14/24

In reply to flounder

flounder said:
Igber over Best is laughable.

I disagree. Igber had arguably the greatest Big Game performance ever (besides Muncie). He is also 4th on the all time rushing list to Best's 8th.

I have absolutely nothing bad to say about Jahvid. Dude is a class act and an amazing athlete.

But Joe Igber is the very definition of class act and an overachieving athlete.

ducky23

6:12a, 4/14/24

Best career avg per run: 7.3

Igber career avg per run: 4.6

It's not even an argument.

TheDuke!!!

1:43p, 4/14/24

In reply to ducky23

ducky23 said:
Best career avg per run: 7.3

Igber career avg per run: 4.6

It's not even an argument.

Just curious Ducky -- were you around back during the 2002 big game?

Igber was always available. He outperformed his athleticism. And he rushed for more yards than Best.

I don't want to make this sound like I am anti-Best. I am not. Love that dude. But Igber was amazing in 2002.

BarcaBear

5:03p, 4/14/24

Arrington over Marshawn?
How has Arrington done more than Marshawn for Cal since they left?
you included this one aspect of how you rate them, but I don't get it.

59bear

5:18p, 4/14/24

In reply to flounder

flounder said:
Igber over Best is laughable.

Clearly his rankings factor in something other than pure ability or on-field performance as both Vereen and Forsett were superior to Igber IMHO and likely Ott too after next season. Igber was a gutsy guy who did a lot with limited support but any of these bigger/faster guys would get my vote. As would Marshawn over Arrington.

59bear

5:22p, 4/14/24

In reply to TheDuke!!!

TheDuke!!! said:
flounder said:
Igber over Best is laughable.
I disagree. Igber had arguably the greatest Big Game performance ever (besides Muncie). He is also 4th on the all time rushing list to Best's 8th.

I have absolutely nothing bad to say about Jahvid. Dude is a class act and an amazing athlete.

But Joe Igber is the very definition of class act and an overachieving athlete.

That I'll concede.

ducky23

5:27p, 4/14/24

In reply to 59bear

59bear said:
flounder said:
Igber over Best is laughable.
Clearly his rankings factor in something other than pure ability or on-field performance as both Vereen and Forsett were superior to Igber IMHO and likely Ott too after next season. Igber was a gutsy guy who did a lot with limited support but any of these bigger/faster guys would get my vote. As would Marshawn over Arrington.

If this is just a list of someone's favorite players, that's fine…we all have our favorites.

But the rankings seem to have little to do with any objective metric

TheDuke!!!

6:31p, 4/14/24

Hi there everyone. Lots of questions about metrics here. I'm happy to answer them. Barcabear clearly read the criteria laid out in the leadership rankings. Others should check it out here.

Barcabear - it is really hard to justify me putting Arrington above Marshawn without saying something slightly negative about Marshawn -- whom I love. So it is tough. But Arrington lead the nation in rushing. Despite all of the excitement and talent, Marshawn never really came close to that. Marshawn's off-the-field behavior has been a mixed bag. But his bad behavior has been really bad. Arrington has never embarrassed himself or the program (to the best of my knowledge).

Everyone else -- please read the criteria in the other thread. It has nothing to do with the NFL. It is about their time at Cal and also factoring in a bit of what they have done for Cal since leaving.

Please also weigh in on the O-Line thread. The big boys deserve our love!

TheDuke!!!

6:33p, 4/14/24

In reply to ducky23

ducky23 said:
59bear said:
flounder said:
Igber over Best is laughable.
Clearly his rankings factor in something other than pure ability or on-field performance as both Vereen and Forsett were superior to Igber IMHO and likely Ott too after next season. Igber was a gutsy guy who did a lot with limited support but any of these bigger/faster guys would get my vote. As would Marshawn over Arrington.

If this is just a list of someone's favorite players, that's fine…we all have our favorites.

But the rankings seem to have little to do with any objective metric

Not sure how one would find an "objective metric" for these. Of course they are subjective and debatable. That's why I asked y'all to weigh in!

If it were simply a list of my favorite players, Desean (with his dad and his antisemitism) wouldn't be anywhere near it.

flounder

10:20p, 4/14/24

In reply to TheDuke!!!

TheDuke!!! said:
ducky23 said:
Best career avg per run: 7.3

Igber career avg per run: 4.6

It's not even an argument.
Just curious Ducky -- were you around back during the 2002 big game?

Igber was always available. He outperformed his athleticism. And he rushed for more yards than Best.

I don't want to make this sound like I am anti-Best. I am not. Love that dude. But Igber was amazing in 2002.

and best was far more amazing in 2008 than igber was in 2002. yes, 2002 igber was amazing, but nothing like 2008 best. 1580 yards, 311 in a single game, 15 touchdowns, most all purpose yards in a single season.

igber gets and deserves his props for being a great student and guy - no question about that.

TheDuke!!!

12:47a, 4/15/24

In reply to flounder

flounder said:
TheDuke!!! said:
ducky23 said:
Best career avg per run: 7.3

Igber career avg per run: 4.6

It's not even an argument.
Just curious Ducky -- were you around back during the 2002 big game?

Igber was always available. He outperformed his athleticism. And he rushed for more yards than Best.

I don't want to make this sound like I am anti-Best. I am not. Love that dude. But Igber was amazing in 2002.
and best was far more amazing in 2008 than igber was in 2002. yes, 2002 igber was amazing, but nothing like 2008 best. 1580 yards, 311 in a single game, 15 touchdowns, most all purpose yards in a single season.

igber gets and deserves his props for being a great student and guy - no question about that.

It is certainly a valid argument. I can't say a single thing bad about Jahvid, nor would I want to!

Jahvid had one helluva Big Game in 2008. Frankly, it was one of the better performances of all time. But in my view, it was not as good as Igber's 2002 performance. And Igber's snapped a seven year losing streak.

Igber was certainly a good student, and was/is a great guy. 100% agree. But he is also the #4 all time Cal rushing leader. Of course he stayed an extra year than Best (#8). But in three of those years he was carrying the ball in Tom Holmoe's offense. Imagine if he had been with Tedford/Cortez for all four years!

Both Best and Igber had to share the rock quite a bit with other talented RBs. Best had to sub in behind Forsett and then share carries with Vereen. Igber had Echimandu nipping at his heels, and a few other talented backs in the stable as well (O'Keith, Williams).

Man, we had some really good RBs in the Tedford era. Great FBs as well. But the thing that really sticks out is that Tedford had 10 of his O-linmen drafted in his 10 years at Cal. The next 12 years under Sonny + Wilcox = Zero OL drafted.*

*Except Schwenke, who played 3 years under Tedford and his last year under Dykes.

bencgilmore

10:17a, 4/15/24

i sense a bit of excess nostalgia for the 02-04 teams

I would argue:
a) as you and some others have, thats its gonig to be nearly impossible to cleanly rank our top 3 RBs over the last 25 years. Marshawn clearly had the most success at the college level, but you could argue Arrington, Forsett, Best, Vereen and Ott are all having more specific impacts. I think Igber was the guy who was doing engineering while RB at Cal football, so I won't knock that vote.

b) Desean was the single most talented and exciting offensive weapon we've had. Keenan and Marvin were good, but not like Desean... in games like @Oregon in '07, he singlehandedly beat them. Teams permanently set up their defenses and STs around him... had we not gone through QB injuries which greatly limited our offense in general (and ability to get it to him in particular), he'd have had Heisman #s in '07.

And I'm not sure what "personal mistakes off the field" you're talking about, he has an attitude (like most WRs), but unlike some other prominent Bear alums in the NFL he doesn't have multiple DUIs and/or has spent the last few years spouting nonsense conspiracy theories on the internet. I love those guys too, but pointing out the supposed "mistakes" DJ's made seems like an unfair shot.

Larno

9:49p, 4/15/24

I'll use a different standard for the running backs for my picks. Specifically, could you expect an explosion every time they touched the ball? Could you not keep your eyes off of them? For a non-Cal example, consider Barry Bonds. Forgetting all the baggage attached to him, every time he came to bat no one took a bathroom break. He might only see 2 or 3 pitches that weren't bad but he turned on those and did something with them. Similarly, when Jason Kidd had the ball you had to watch, and closely, as you never knew what magic he would produce. With this criteria, I put Marshawn Lynch and Jahvid Best at the top. They could break off a big run at any time, especially Best. And Lynch would break ankles all over the field with his cutbacks. I'd lump all the other mentioned backs together, as they were good in their own way, just not (in my opinion), on the level of these two.

Also, I would put DeSean returning punts in the must-see category too, until teams wised up and punted away from him.

calumnus

10:02p, 4/15/24

In reply to Larno

Larno said:
I'll use a different standard for the running backs for my picks. Specifically, could you expect an explosion every time they touched the ball? Could you not keep your eyes off of them? For a non-Cal example, consider Barry Bonds. Forgetting all the baggage attached to him, every time he came to bat no one took a bathroom break. He might only see 2 or 3 pitches that weren't bad but he turned on those and did something with them. Similarly, when Jason Kidd had the ball you had to watch, and closely, as you never knew what magic he would produce. With this criteria, I put Marshawn Lynch and Jahvid Best at the top. They could break off a big run at any time, especially Best. And Lynch would break ankles all over the field with his cutbacks. I'd lump all the other mentioned backs together, as they were good in their own way, just not (in my opinion), on the level of these two.

Also, I would put DeSean returning punts in the must-see category too, until teams wised up and punted away from him.

I agree, Lynch and Best stand alone, but I will give the OP this: Igber made the Holmoe era bearable. He was really fun to watch. He reminded me of Barry Sanders. Not so much because he could break one off any minute, but he could make a near take down in the backfield for a loss a five yard gain. He could consistently make something out of nothing, Great moves, tough to tackle, low center of gravity. It is as a skill he developed in breaking the Hawaii state rushing record playing for Iolani. That is like breaking the California state rushing record playing for Lowell. The opposing DL have 50 to 100 pounds on your OL.

ducktilldeath

10:24p, 4/15/24

In reply to TheDuke!!!

TheDuke!!! said:
ducky23 said:
Best career avg per run: 7.3

Igber career avg per run: 4.6

It's not even an argument.
Just curious Ducky -- were you around back during the 2002 big game?

Igber was always available. He outperformed his athleticism. And he rushed for more yards than Best.

I don't want to make this sound like I am anti-Best. I am not. Love that dude. But Igber was amazing in 2002.

The guy with 314 more carries had 456 more yards. Huzzah!

LodeBear

10:27p, 4/15/24

Didn't Tony Gonzalez play TE for CAL ? or was that a different player. Oh maybe that was the basketball player. the one I was thinking about was NFL Hall of Fame tight end.

Ok you got me last 25 years. he played 1993-96.

ducky23

11:42p, 4/15/24

In reply to ducktilldeath

ducktilldeath said:
TheDuke!!! said:
ducky23 said:
Best career avg per run: 7.3

Igber career avg per run: 4.6

It's not even an argument.
Just curious Ducky -- were you around back during the 2002 big game?

Igber was always available. He outperformed his athleticism. And he rushed for more yards than Best.

I don't want to make this sound like I am anti-Best. I am not. Love that dude. But Igber was amazing in 2002.
The guy with 314 more carries had 456 more yards. Huzzah!

See what you're doing? You're making me agree with a Duck?

In 2008, Jahvid Best rushed for 1580 yards with a 8.1 ypc

Since 1956, there have only been 44 players (min 6.5 rush attempts per game) that have had a better ypc in a single season.

Of those 44 players, only Darrell Henderson and Reggie bush rushed for more than 1580 yards.

Which means Best arguably has the third most efficient ypc season of all time.

And you're going to seriously compare him to Joe Igber?

TheDuke!!!

1:12a, 4/16/24

I stand by my Igber ranking. This ranking is about college, not the NFL. And Igber was an amazing college player. He achieved those extra yards in Tom Holmoe's offense. Best had the benefit of being in an offense that made sense.

But heck, I also love Jahvid Best.

However, neither Best nor Marshawn nor Igber hold a candle to Arrington's contribution in 2004.

TheDuke!!!

1:14a, 4/16/24

In reply to bencgilmore

bencgilmore said:
i sense a bit of excess nostalgia for the 02-04 teams

I would argue:
a) as you and some others have, thats its gonig to be nearly impossible to cleanly rank our top 3 RBs over the last 25 years. Marshawn clearly had the most success at the college level, but you could argue Arrington, Forsett, Best, Vereen and Ott are all having more specific impacts. I think Igber was the guy who was doing engineering while RB at Cal football, so I won't knock that vote.

b) Desean was the single most talented and exciting offensive weapon we've had. Keenan and Marvin were good, but not like Desean... in games like @Oregon in '07, he singlehandedly beat them. Teams permanently set up their defenses and STs around him... had we not gone through QB injuries which greatly limited our offense in general (and ability to get it to him in particular), he'd have had Heisman #s in '07.

And I'm not sure what "personal mistakes off the field" you're talking about, he has an attitude (like most WRs), but unlike some other prominent Bear alums in the NFL he doesn't have multiple DUIs and/or has spent the last few years spouting nonsense conspiracy theories on the internet. I love those guys too, but pointing out the supposed "mistakes" DJ's made seems like an unfair shot.

Desean's dad was a terrible interference. Desean didn't even work out with the team in the summers. He was doing private workouts with his Dad in LA.

But I can understand how you could hold your view if you missed his terrible antisemitic remarks.

I put him on the list because of his football talent. But given his divisiveness when he was at Cal and evil/racist remarks after he left, there is no way he is going above Geoff MacArthur or Keenan Allen on my list.

ColoradoBear

7:11a, 4/16/24

For those not in the know:

New (old) name, same calstrong!

https://bearinsider.com/forums/2/topics/93278/replies/1705162#1705162

It won't be long before he tires of the banal chit-chat any reverts to what he does best - attack the Cal Legends NIL Collective founder and supporters by calling it a waste of money.

I'm surprised CalGreg consistently allows this to continue under various known and unknown screen names, but it's not my site.

bencgilmore

8:43a, 4/17/24

In reply to Larno

Larno said:
Also, I would put DeSean returning punts in the must-see category too, until teams wised up and punted away from him.

Its really a historic tragedy that we didn't have a healthy offense that could make teams pay for that. We were getting 10-20+ yards of free field position every punt because they were launching it out of bounds. Healthy Longshore would have turned a lot of those possessions into TDs, but when he was hobbled it tended to be 3 and outs

bencgilmore

8:52a, 4/17/24

In reply to TheDuke!!!

If I'm honest I had forgotten about the retweet/IG thing. IIRC it was one of those cases where he stupidly reposted a story, which while bad is a lot different than going up on a stage and saying them yourselves. Who knows what he was trying to communicate there, but I don't think its as bad as multiple DUIs... for the simple fact that his decision to post that didn't put other people's lives in danger (unlike Marshawn's decision to drive those nights. and i say this as someone with a DUI, so its not like I'm better than him or anything).

Rodgers though... he has spent the last two years using his vast platform to spread lies, doubts, misinformation and conspiracies. We all know he's not a stupid person generally, which if anything makes it worse because it suggests there's an agenda to it all. His comments caused people to send death threats to Jimmy Kimmel, and he hasn't even apologized for it. IMO far worse than a momentary lapse of judgement as one retweets something heinous and/or decides to drive when they shouldn't.

Which is unfortunate because he was easily my favorite player while I was here at Cal... I'm not sure I'd be posting on this board if we had an "average for the last 30 years of Cal football" QB under center in his place in 03/04.

PtownBear1

9:45a, 4/17/24

In reply to ColoradoBear

ColoradoBear said:
For those not in the know:

New (old) name, same calstrong!

https://bearinsider.com/forums/2/topics/93278/replies/1705162#1705162

It won't be long before he tires of the banal chit-chat any reverts to what he does best - attack the Cal Legends NIL Collective founder and supporters by calling it a waste of money.

I'm surprised CalGreg consistently allows this to continue under various known and unknown screen names, but it's not my site.

If the Duke really was Cal Strong, so what. As long as he's not doing that stupid caveman speak and isn't bashing the collective, no issues from me.

What bothers me is someone on CGB (or whatever they're called now) pretending to be Madsen's mother. I can't imagine Coach Madsen appreciates that.

calumnus

11:42p, 4/17/24

Cal fans love to turn on our 5 star recruits that turn down all the big programs and excel at Cal. Desean, Keenan Allen, Shareef, Jalen Brown got a ton of criticism while here. USC fans thought every LBP star was theirs by right and when they labeled him "Me Sean" Cal fans, who prefer lunch pail guys, Rudy's, gladly took the baton.

One of the reasons Desean was considered "divisive" is our strength coach at the time was a meat head body-builder who wanted everybody to bulk up, regardless of position.

Desean correctly recognized that his super power was speed, quickness and agility. His father had devised workouts to help maximize those traits. Adding 20-30 LBs of upper body muscle would reduce those traits. So Desean refused to follow the strength coaches' orders and was labeled "insubordinate, a trouble maker, a prima dona."

I would hope people can now admit Desean was right. A WR in the NFL 17 years until age 36.

641 receptions for 11,263 yards 17.6 yards per catch for 58 TDs.

The other issue was when Longshore came back, obviously still injured, because Riley was in Tedford's doghouse for the end of the OSU game, DeSean was the one who went to Tedford to lobby for Rikey to be given another chance. This was again seen as insubordination by some of the coaching staff (not Tedford) which they shared with insiders who shared it on this board. Longshore and his clique took exception and Desean was blamed for "dividing the team." Longshore even clearly avoided targeting Desean. The worst was the USC game. With Desean out wide game on the line, SC had single coverage on Desean with the CB taunting him as they had all game, Longshore looked at him then went the other way.

Finally, in the Armed Forces Bowl, after falling behind Air Force 21-0, Tedford finally brought Riley in in the middle of the second quarter and he chucks it deep for Desean, where he has to completely turn to look over his other shoulder for the ball for a 40 yd TD on our way to outscoring Air Force 42-15 the rest of the way.

However, the negative stuff Cal coaches and insiders said about DeSean caused him to fall from a sure 2t round pick to the 2nd round. Many on this board said Cal would be better in 2008 due to "addition by subtraction." They were wrong.

The same strength coach pushed Nate Longshore to bulk up, which was the opposite of what he should have done (his arm was strong enough already, but he could have benefited from improved foot speed and agility) and even later resulted in Nate tearing his pec while bench pressing.

Desean was one of our few NFL stars that came back for games and lead the student section in cheers.

Reposting Farrakhan, including his antiSemitic and antivax conspiracy theories was a huge mistake which he quickly deleted but were caught In screenshots and he immediately apologized for and renounced. If some want to hold that against him I understand, but I honestly don't think that reflects his views.

TheDuke!!!

1:53a, 4/19/24

bencgilmore + calumnus: it wasn't just Farrakhan, and it wasn't deleted immediately. What he did was not a simple youthful mistake. Desean was in his mid-30s. He has plenty enough life experience, business experience, and education to know those posts were insane, stupid, and insanely stupid.

Desean has never been the brightest bulb. How many times can one human being spike the ball on the 1-yard line?!?!?! But he is smart enough to know not to repeat racist and genocidal things.

Clearly, I didn't let immoral behavior effect my rankings all that much. Rodgers is at #1 and Desean is at #3. I wouldn't let either of them babysit my kids or preach in my church. But they were good at catching and throwing footballs while they were here, and have done a couple of things to help the university/program (in additional to saying some things that do not reflect well on us).

For the others, I've been here for 20 years. Get over yourselves. I am not someone else.

mbBear

9:47a, 4/19/24

In reply to TheDuke!!!

TheDuke!!! said:
bencgilmore + calumnus: it wasn't just Farrakhan, and it wasn't deleted immediately. What he did was not a simple youthful mistake. Desean was in his mid-30s. He has plenty enough life experience, business experience, and education to know those posts were insane, stupid, and insanely stupid.

Desean has never been the brightest bulb. How many times can one human being spike the ball on the 1-yard line?!?!?! But he is smart enough to know not to repeat racist and genocidal things.

Clearly, I didn't let immoral behavior effect my rankings all that much. Rodgers is at #1 and Desean is at #3. I wouldn't let either of them babysit my kids or preach in my church. But they were good at catching and throwing footballs while they were here, and have done a couple of things to help the university/program (in additional to saying some things that do not reflect well on us).

For the others, I've been here for 20 years. Get over yourselves. I am not someone else.

Two things I know from being in Philly/close to Philly:
-As a rookie we had Desean at our charity event; yes, I set it up. He arrived early. He was gracious beyond expectation. His mother stayed even later than him, but he did not leave early. Could not have been better with the younger crowd,...and yes, a pretty articulate Cal representative....
-some in the Philly Jewish community were able to be part of communication with Desean after the incident...without a lot of detail, I was told he was receptive and understanding of his mistakes.

TheDuke!!!

2:16p, 4/19/24

Hi mbBear

I can't speak to the charity event you organized, but I don't doubt what you say.

As for the Jewish community -- this is exactly what always happens when the evil in some celebrity's brain or heart comes to the surface. They do some minimal cultural education, the wronged party gets star struck, and then everyone moves on.

Desean did not need cultural education. He was a multi-millionaire in his mid-30s who attended the University of California, Berkeley. He was a mature grown up human being.

And even if we put the Farrakhan comments aside, this is what he also said:

"because the white Jews knows that the Negroes are the real Children of Israel and to keep Americas secret the Jews will blackmail America. They will extort America, their plan for world domination won't work if the Negroes know who they were [....] Hitler was right."

This didn't keep him out of my top-3, so it doesn't really matter for the ranking. He is great at running fast and catching footballs. And I am glad he gave something back to charity. But none of this changes the fact that he is an antisemitic Hitler-supporting scumbag. Desean is not a role model.

ducktilldeath

7:21p, 5/5/24

In reply to TheDuke!!!

TheDuke!!! said:
I stand by my Igber ranking. This ranking is about college, not the NFL. And Igber was an amazing college player. He achieved those extra yards in Tom Holmoe's offense. Best had the benefit of being in an offense that made sense.

But heck, I also love Jahvid Best.

However, neither Best nor Marshawn nor Igber hold a candle to Arrington's contribution in 2004.

Best is the conference's all time YPC leader. A college conference.

TheDuke!!!

11:53p, 5/5/24

In reply to ducktilldeath

ducktilldeath said:
TheDuke!!! said:
I stand by my Igber ranking. This ranking is about college, not the NFL. And Igber was an amazing college player. He achieved those extra yards in Tom Holmoe's offense. Best had the benefit of being in an offense that made sense.

But heck, I also love Jahvid Best.

However, neither Best nor Marshawn nor Igber hold a candle to Arrington's contribution in 2004.
Best is the conference's all time YPC leader. A college conference.

That's amazing! But he never put together a season like Arrington's. Best was hurt quite a bit.

Arrington also had to compete with touches with Marshawn and a killer passing game. That makes what he accomplished all the more amazing.

calumnus

12:20a, 5/6/24

In reply to TheDuke!!!

TheDuke!!! said:
ducktilldeath said:
TheDuke!!! said:
I stand by my Igber ranking. This ranking is about college, not the NFL. And Igber was an amazing college player. He achieved those extra yards in Tom Holmoe's offense. Best had the benefit of being in an offense that made sense.

But heck, I also love Jahvid Best.

However, neither Best nor Marshawn nor Igber hold a candle to Arrington's contribution in 2004.
Best is the conference's all time YPC leader. A college conference.
That's amazing! But he never put together a season like Arrington's. Best was hurt quite a bit.

Arrington also had to compete with touches with Marshawn and a killer passing game. That makes what he accomplished all the more amazing.

If instead of running him into the pile on first down we had pitched the ball to Best outside, he would have broken all the records and won the Heisman. And stayed healthy. What we did was like using a Ferrari in a demolition derby.

TheDuke!!!

3:34p, 5/6/24

In reply to calumnus

calumnus said:
TheDuke!!! said:
ducktilldeath said:
TheDuke!!! said:
I stand by my Igber ranking. This ranking is about college, not the NFL. And Igber was an amazing college player. He achieved those extra yards in Tom Holmoe's offense. Best had the benefit of being in an offense that made sense.

But heck, I also love Jahvid Best.

However, neither Best nor Marshawn nor Igber hold a candle to Arrington's contribution in 2004.
Best is the conference's all time YPC leader. A college conference.
That's amazing! But he never put together a season like Arrington's. Best was hurt quite a bit.

Arrington also had to compete with touches with Marshawn and a killer passing game. That makes what he accomplished all the more amazing.

If instead of running him into the pile on first down we had pitched the ball to Best outside, he would have broken all the records and won the Heisman. And stayed healthy. What we did was like using a Ferrari in a demolition derby.

I recall us doing a lot of pitching to the outside as well. His concussion against Oregon State(?) had nothing to do with play calling. It was due to Best fearlessly trying to pull off an insanely dangerous leaping touchdown.

The last thing I want to do is to make this sound like I am anti-Best. The dude was nothing short of amazing and I am grateful for the time we had with him. But he doesn't hold a candle to Arrington or Marshawn. He is certainly in the conversation, however, with Forsett, Igber, Vereen, Echimandu, etc. for the #3 spot. I think you could make a case for any of them (including Best) to land at number three.

ducktilldeath

9:45p, 5/6/24

In reply to TheDuke!!!

TheDuke!!! said:
ducktilldeath said:
TheDuke!!! said:
I stand by my Igber ranking. This ranking is about college, not the NFL. And Igber was an amazing college player. He achieved those extra yards in Tom Holmoe's offense. Best had the benefit of being in an offense that made sense.

But heck, I also love Jahvid Best.

However, neither Best nor Marshawn nor Igber hold a candle to Arrington's contribution in 2004.
Best is the conference's all time YPC leader. A college conference.
That's amazing! But he never put together a season like Arrington's. Best was hurt quite a bit.

Arrington also had to compete with touches with Marshawn and a killer passing game. That makes what he accomplished all the more amazing.

JJ would have had my heisman vote.

matteye

7:08a, 5/7/24

In reply to flounder

Igber over any of those guys is laughable